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> I could only imagine. The other problem is that many people seem to think I'm saying something against
> the Chinese *people* themselves, based on the "f* you round-eye* messages I've received (and they call
> ME racist). They don't seem to get the clear distinction (to me) between the Chinese people and China's
> network. It's the machines I'm concerned with the attacks coming from those machine. Just because the
> machine is sourced in China doesn't mean the attacker is - so I have to do the best I can to defend against
> the machines. However, that unfortunately comes across to those who choose not to think it through as me
> saying something against the Chinese themselves.
> Then again, as you well know, people will take any opportunity they can just to be ugly and confrontational,
> and to have something to rail about. In the face of the reality of China's horribly infected network, when I
this threat. The security awareness threat will cause a loss of
productivity and cost of materials to businesses worldwide that will
most likely exceed the loss due to un-security-aware employee security
blunders. They'd be better off spending that time and money on user
controls, making security policies simpler so that they can be read by
normal people as a job contingent, enforcing accountability, and
formally certifying (pass a practical) employees who need to do secure
gate-keeping.
2. This year will continue the wonderful understanding of all the
On 1/15/10 6:40 PM, Thor (Hammer of God) wrote:
> I could only imagine. The other problem is that many people seem to think I'm saying something against the Chinese *people* themselves, based on the "f* you round-eye* messages I've received (and they call ME racist). They don't seem to get the clear distinction (to me) between the Chinese people and China's network. It's the machines I'm concerned with the attacks coming from those machine. Just because the machine is sourced in China doesn't mean the attacker is - so I have to do the best I can to defend against the machines. However, that unfortunately comes across to those who choose not to think it through as me saying something against the Chinese themselves.
>
> Then again, as you well know, people will take any opportunity they can just to be ugly and confrontational, and to have something to rail about. In the face of the reality of China's horribly infected network, when I suggest blocking that traffic (as many others have and do), they seize the opportunity to call me prejudice and a racist.
The Chinese network is indeed very infected, which in turn causes the
rest of the world great computerized harm. Nobody disputes this.
The solution of blocking China, however, is one which harms both people
outside of China, as well as those inside of China. Therefore, it
Inline:
> Subject: Re: All China, All The Time
> The solution of blocking China, however, is one which harms both people
> outside of China, as well as those inside of China. Therefore, it
> translates into an attack on them.
>
> Looking it this operationally:
>
Inline:
> Subject: Re: All China, All The Time
> The solution of blocking China, however, is one which harms both people
> outside of China, as well as those inside of China. Therefore, it
> translates into an attack on them.
>
> Looking it this operationally:
>
I'd say we are both right.
You look at it from a security researcher stand-point. There is nothing
interesting about user-interaction, and it is even kind of lame.
From a reasonable perspective, we refuse to believe people will act so ..
silly.
> prediction and that we should be very concerned with this. Given the
Not predicting, assessing.
ISECOM presents Smarter Safer Better!
http://www.isecom.org/seminars
The failure to figure out correctly who to trust, what is safe, and
how we are secure is how people get manipulated, cheated, scammed, and
stolen from all the time in so many ways. This doesn't just come from
thieves and hackers but also people like advertisers, co-workers,
journalists, politicians, leaders, and even our own loved ones. If you
don't learn to see through it then you will always be poorer and at a
greater disadvantage in work, school, and life. But it doesn't have to
to security. Of course, network-based CTF and lockpicking contest
will still
happen.
We will have a specific session for new works, including slots for new
presenters -i.e. typically people whose personal research are extremely
interesting but who do not usually present at conferences- because
security innovations occur at the fringe of the security industry,
very often by
passionate people, and that's what we are and love. Submissions from
students,
displayed within the terminal and also handles how the scrollback buffer
is saved. On September 17th, 2009 a change was committed to libVTE by
Behdad Esfahbod that altered the way the scrollback buffer was
implemented in libVTE. The new way creates a file in the /tmp filesystem
and immediately unlinks it. This is not an uncommon way of handling tmp
files, however there are probably many people who would not expect
data from within the terminal window to be written to disk. There is
a sense of trust that the data in the terminal is only stored in memory
and is cleared when the computer is shut off. In a sense, this bug
is allowing the data to "break the forth wall".
of Javascript now called AJAX wouldn't be a cross-browser standard until 2004.
So I looked at this integer overflow and I thought to myself what exactly I'd
find this useful for. The answers I came up with were:
* Getting idiot Mac-using creative people at bulk mailing companies to click
on links which spew SMTP envelopes at their internal mailserver, thereby
utilizing someone else's email reputation to send CPA offers of my own.
* Bruteforcing device passwords via a wordlist and then phoning home
* Reflashing network devices with firmware more fun than the factory default
* Relay exploit payloads to non-HTTP daemons on arbitrary TCP ports
To me, Hacking is primarily about learning how and why things works as they do and if they can be changed (improved or abused in this case) and of course, sharing what you find out so the community can benefit from it!
Afterwards, the developers can learn to code more secure (if you find a vulnerability). However, as we all might know: Security is a human factor and will always be a problem.
If i would contact the vendor as the first thing each time, how would people be able to learn from my research if it's not even possible to get an earlier version where the vulnerability is included in?
Consider the alternatives (where i don't contact the vendor):
- Sell the vulnerability and know people will exploit people in the dark.
- Keep it to myself and exploit people.
- Share it among a little group of people and let them play/exploit with it.
opening an .exe from an email, I'd like to see what client you are
talking about and what environment (meaning, what OS/email client and
what did they have to do to get it to run). But specifically, how many
were exploits where a user had to visit an untrusted site, download an
executable, run it, and explicitly give it administrative credentials to
run? Not just people running as administrator, but typing in the admin
account credentials to run it as administrator as one has to do on OSX?
My guess (and I'd really like to see details on your findings) is that
most "interactive" issues are the more "trivial" interactive issues
(like clicking a link and launching a vulnerable version of IE).
opening an .exe from an email, I'd like to see what client you are
talking about and what environment (meaning, what OS/email client and
what did they have to do to get it to run). But specifically, how many
were exploits where a user had to visit an untrusted site, download an
executable, run it, and explicitly give it administrative credentials to
run? Not just people running as administrator, but typing in the admin
account credentials to run it as administrator as one has to do on OSX?
My guess (and I'd really like to see details on your findings) is that
most "interactive" issues are the more "trivial" interactive issues
(like clicking a link and launching a vulnerable version of IE).
determine what the different parts of the chip do and by the end of
the course be able to circumvent some of the card's hardware access
controls. We're gearing this workshop towards software reverse
engineerers that want to learn more about how the hardware ticks and
get a better understanding for how things are implemented at the even
lower levels. People attending this course will receive decaped parts,
large format prints of the die, flash drives with high-resolution
pictures of the die, and hands-on access to chip reverse engineering
equipment.
Building/Hacking Open Source Embedded Wireless Routers
determine what the different parts of the chip do and by the end of
the course be able to circumvent some of the card's hardware access
controls. We're gearing this workshop towards software reverse
engineerers that want to learn more about how the hardware ticks and
get a better understanding for how things are implemented at the even
lower levels. People attending this course will receive decaped parts,
large format prints of the die, flash drives with high-resolution
pictures of the die, and hands-on access to chip reverse engineering
equipment.
Building/Hacking Open Source Embedded Wireless Routers
very simple, and I do believe some one else will write a good stuff for
academic audiences.
If you still believe in Santa Claus, please, stop reading right now, because
this paper will show that bad things can get worse, and worse, and worse, if
we are not paying attention on the signs. And according to some people: it
is all old news, and the techniques were already presented by someone,
somewhere. Ok, then!
-[ What happened during 2003?
classifying this as "remotely exploitable" when what you describe in
your "detailed description" sounds more like you would have to get a
victim to go to your evil web site first or download your coffee
"recipe" somehow and feed them to the coffee maker, right? Or is the
maker actually listening for connections and the assumption is that
people will connect it directly to the internet and not behind some NAT
device? Given your apparent full-disclosure policy, you won't mind
sharing POC code with us, right? (even though most people don't have
your kind of money to buy a $2000 coffee machine to test it on ;). I
think given all the attention you've received about this that the most
complete and accurate information should be made available to the
year, it is still San Diego's exclusive hacker convention, bringing
together Southern California's hacker community year after year to attend
the high quality presentations and participate in the annual festivities.
This year we've decided to try making our conference format a bit more
dynamic and present things in a way that makes it easier for the people
attending to get the info they need. Most technical talks don't require a
full 50 minutes when presented to a technical audience, but 50 min talks
are often useful for people who are new to a topic. Because of this, we
will be accepting all of our talks this year as 20 min talks and depending
on scheduling, some of the talks may be asked to be extended to 50 min.
year, it is still San Diego's exclusive hacker convention, bringing
together Southern California's hacker community year after year to attend
the high quality presentations and participate in the annual festivities.
This year we've decided to try making our conference format a bit more
dynamic and present things in a way that makes it easier for the people
attending to get the info they need. Most technical talks don't require a
full 50 minutes when presented to a technical audience, but 50 min talks
are often useful for people who are new to a topic. Because of this, we
will be accepting all of our talks this year as 20 min talks and depending
on scheduling, some of the talks may be asked to be extended to 50 min.
so now the question is, why don't all these "good guys" spend their personal
time and skills to find these vulnerabilities and reporting them to the
vendors before me?
the answer is that usually such people don't have the skills or simply don't
like the idea of doing a professional work completely for free and even with
the obligation of doing everything the vendor wants before the releasing of
the patch that can take months or even years...
practically a slave.
so now the question is, why don't all these "good guys" spend their
personal time and skills to find these vulnerabilities and reporting
them to the vendors before me?
the answer is that usually such people don't have the skills or simply
don't like the idea of doing a professional work completely for free and
even with the obligation of doing everything the vendor wants before
the releasing of the patch that can take months or even years...
practically a slave.
Researchers from all around the internet are welcome to come to
Paris and talk, without discrimination whatsoever : everyone is
equal in front of a computer. Maybe skills appart that is ;)
HES is also an open big party, by the hacking community and for the
hacking community, with people coming literally from around the world.
If you'd like to not only come, but be part of HES by organising a
workshop (lockpickers and organisers of a social engineering contest
wanted !) or contest : please do and refer the relevant section below.
People in this discussion have been focusing on the technical aspects
rather than the people aspect.
The current power management system is MUCH more secure because people
do not have to be given an account on the machine for them to shut it
down.
This is helpful when an admin can not get to a machine that has to be
gracefully shutdown because of an impending power outage or
thunderstorms. This can be a home computer, a computer in a dorm
As long as Outlook has been around, people have been trying to get two
instances running at the same time. Not multiple profiles that you can
load when starting Outlook, but two separate instances running
concurrently, each with their own associated profile. After all, Outlook
(even 2007) only lets you connect to a single Exchange server per
profile... And that sucks.
What would be great is to have one instance connected up to your
"business" Exchange Server, and another connected up to your "personal"
Exchange Server (and of course, to other people's Exchange servers who
don't you know have an account on their box ;).
action you feel is appropriate.
If there is no reason (business, personal, or otherwise) for traffic
from the US or the UK to be reaching your network, then by all means
block all of it if that is what you choose to do. If you re-read my
post, you'll see that the purpose for the sets is for people to make
*educated* decisions regarding what they may choose to block and from
where. In my case (and cases where colleagues tested this) blocking all
SMTP from China resulted in a dramatic (not just "noticeable") reduction
in overall SPAM. In the case of the site that I own (HoG) I decided to
actually block ALL traffic from China across the board. Does this mean
action you feel is appropriate.
If there is no reason (business, personal, or otherwise) for traffic
from the US or the UK to be reaching your network, then by all means
block all of it if that is what you choose to do. If you re-read my
post, you'll see that the purpose for the sets is for people to make
*educated* decisions regarding what they may choose to block and from
where. In my case (and cases where colleagues tested this) blocking all
SMTP from China resulted in a dramatic (not just "noticeable") reduction
in overall SPAM. In the case of the site that I own (HoG) I decided to
actually block ALL traffic from China across the board. Does this mean
----------------------
By far the most common question i get asked is "Why do you have such
a pornographic NSFW image on iKAT?"
The answer to this question is simple, iKAT makes hacking Kiosks easy
(too easy if you ask me). So I wanted to discourage people from rampaging
through the streets owning every Kiosk in sight.
If you want to hack with iKAT, you need to have balls the size of
bowling balls, and the gumption to have a bit of skin on screen.
It seems people are more scared of being accused of looking at porn,
than being accused of hacking a Kiosk!
ideas about information security and everything related to it.
H2HC will feature national and international speakers and attendees with
a wide range of skills. The atmosphere is favorable to present all
facets of computer security subject and will be a great opportunity to
network with like-minded people and enthusiasts.
The conference language is either Portuguese or English for the So
Paulo Edition and Spanish and English for the Cancun edition.
[ - The venue - ]
Actually both are true.
More systems will be owned by these unmitigated issues since more attackers will be aware of their existence. While it is true
that others knew about these issues (always assume so), many more will know about them now, and more systems likely will be exploited. This was certainly the case when tavis published an unmitigated windows vuln http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/30/windows_exploit_spike/ .
To your point people who 'are paying attention' will patch once a patch is available, and others who wouldn't normally know
will see this in the news and become more aware of the issue/s. I don't think people on this list are arguing that
the public shouldn't be made aware of problems in these devices, they are arguing that POC shouldn't be published for
unmitigated issues as it doesn't benefit users.
If you can provide real world statistics to the list demonstrating proof that people are safer by being aware of unmitigated
> And I'd like to ask ALL SECURITY RESEARCHERS (of course including
> Rodrigo and Wagner).
>
> For what do you research security? What is your "security"? To
> protect people from threat? Or throw people into crisis? Do you
> recognize effects of your halfway job like this case?
We have a responsibility with the users. If the user is not aware
that a vulnerability exists and is ignored by the vendor, he will
never have the power to decide.
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